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Old 03-08-2012, 03:46 PM
Ken Ken is offline
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Default Finding Genghis Khan's Wall

An article here in China's China Daily newspaper appeared regarding William Lindesay's recent expedition to locate Genghis Khan's Wall. Below are the links:-

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/life/20...t_14788959.htm

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/life/20...t_14788955.htm
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: Finding Genghis Khan's Wall

This is about the most stunning article about the Great Walls of the last years.

Many questions remain:

Was the "Great Wall of Genghis Khan" a rebuilt Han Wall or was it totally Xi Xia (or someone else)?
What evidence do we have about two Han Walls in the deserts of Mongolia?
How long was it in use?
Why does no historical source tell us about it?
How old are other walls, formerly regarded to be Han?
Why doesn't Sir Lindesay talk to us and use our knowledge there? It would bring him (and us) a lot further.


-chinoook

PS: This article showed me how lazy I was not to take organic material from the walls I know and (about) no one else. I started to contact some commercial labs as well as universities for getting my future samples analysed.
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Old 03-10-2012, 03:39 PM
Ken Ken is offline
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Default Re: Finding Genghis Khan's Wall

Another article:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...#disqus_thread

Chinoook, it seems that our map files already shows this Wall as Han. Judging by the location, it seems to be a continuation of the Han Wall from Jiuquan.

Last edited by Ken; 03-10-2012 at 04:00 PM. Reason: add more information
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Old 03-12-2012, 03:20 PM
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Default Re: Finding Genghis Khan's Wall

The interpretation as a barrier for Gazelle migration is ridiculous.

Important, but not stated, is the fact that this wall shows no beacon towers at all.

Even more important would be to understand whether this wall was built by the Han and later reused (not very probable) or at whole later work.

I will try to get samples of wood (or other organic Material) of both the inner and the outer wall this year. I already have contact to labs who do the C-14 age dating. The costs are about 200 - 300 EUR (250-380 USD), which is not too much. But I will try to find cooperation with (German) universities, maybe I can also find sponsors. Does any one of you have an idea whom we could find for raising some funds? Not that much needed, but I don't want to pay all the expenses for work which is helpful for so many people and researchers.


-chinoook
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chinoook's 1st law: Structurally weak walls tend to have double structures.
chinoook's 2nd law: Newer walls are built next older walls, not over them.
chinoook's 3rd law: Similar problems lead to similar solutions.


The most dangerous worldview is the worldview of people, who have not viewed the world. (Alexander von Humboldt (1769-1859), German naturalist and explorer)

Last edited by chinoook; 03-12-2012 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:05 PM
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Default Re: Finding Genghis Khan's Wall

An article on the online page of a German newspaper. The seem to have talked to Mr. Lindesay directly.
If anyone feels the need I can translate.


-chinoook
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chinoook's 1st law: Structurally weak walls tend to have double structures.
chinoook's 2nd law: Newer walls are built next older walls, not over them.
chinoook's 3rd law: Similar problems lead to similar solutions.


The most dangerous worldview is the worldview of people, who have not viewed the world. (Alexander von Humboldt (1769-1859), German naturalist and explorer)
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Old 03-18-2012, 01:53 PM
Ken Ken is offline
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Default Re: Finding Genghis Khan's Wall

I have been reading “The Great Wall" by John Man. He also visited this part of the wall. John Man argues that "Could it be that the Gobi ridge wall is part of the northern border wall as defined by the Han about AD150 after the Xiongnu had gone,when there was no point in building defences?"
This makes some sense as there are no beacon towers along this wall which may be explained that this may be a wall to demarcate borders rather than a defensive wall. In any case, there are the outer and inner Han Walls in Inner Mongolia which were for defensive purposes given the fortresses and towers prevalent near to these two walls.

This arguement can also be made for the Qin Wall in Baotou. This wall has either no parapets or beacon towers. Could this be also be a border wall?
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:14 PM
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Default Re: Finding Genghis Khan's Wall

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken View Post
I have been reading “The Great Wall" by John Man. He also visited this part of the wall. John Man argues that "Could it be that the Gobi ridge wall is part of the northern border wall as defined by the Han about AD150 after the Xiongnu had gone,when there was no point in building defences?"
As long as we don't know the building time of this wall we will only by making a guess. And especially the probes of Mr. Lindesay make it (very?) probable that this is no Han wall.

Quote:
This makes some sense as there are no beacon towers along this wall which may be explained that this may be a wall to demarcate borders rather than a defensive wall. In any case, there are the outer and inner Han Walls in Inner Mongolia which were for defensive purposes given the fortresses and towers prevalent near to these two walls.

This arguement can also be made for the Qin Wall in Baotou. This wall has either no parapets or beacon towers. Could this be also be a border wall?
And how to explain the high number of fortresses? To me this is a strongly fortified wall.
The Qin Wall north of Baoutou shows a high number of beacon towers and I refuse the idea that there were no parapets 2200 years ago.


-chinoook
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chinoook's 1st law: Structurally weak walls tend to have double structures.
chinoook's 2nd law: Newer walls are built next older walls, not over them.
chinoook's 3rd law: Similar problems lead to similar solutions.


The most dangerous worldview is the worldview of people, who have not viewed the world. (Alexander von Humboldt (1769-1859), German naturalist and explorer)
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Old 03-19-2012, 03:02 PM
Ken Ken is offline
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Default Re: Finding Genghis Khan's Wall

This is strange. I visited the Qin Wall in Baotou last year before our rendez-vous and I could not see any towers or fortresses
As for the Outer and Inner Han Walls, we know already this is a fortified wall.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:58 AM
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Default Re: Finding Genghis Khan's Wall

For anyone that is interested and who is in China, there is a 26 page article about this in this months National Geographic magazine, in Chinese though
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:35 AM
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Default Re: Finding Genghis Khan's Wall

Quote:
Originally Posted by PWCCA View Post
For anyone that is interested and who is in China, there is a 26 page article about this in this months National Geographic magazine, in Chinese though
[x] more than highly interested.


-chinoook
__________________
chinoook's 1st law: Structurally weak walls tend to have double structures.
chinoook's 2nd law: Newer walls are built next older walls, not over them.
chinoook's 3rd law: Similar problems lead to similar solutions.


The most dangerous worldview is the worldview of people, who have not viewed the world. (Alexander von Humboldt (1769-1859), German naturalist and explorer)
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