Ningxia riddle

[andarchen]

Hi, chinoook

I spent half day to read GW path description on north of Nigxia(http://www.51766.com/xinwen/11000/1100046650.html), i used Baidu electronic map to
locate all places mentioned in descipition as attached kmz file, and draw following picture to indicate places in seguence which GW could pass ,
There are two GW pathes at north of Nigxia , white line was built on year 1455 around , and yellow line was built in 1531.white line northward along right bank of yellow river (blue line),then cross yellow river , pass north of Ningxia then enter Helan moutain .Yellow line start from westbank of yellow river and end at beneath Helan moutain .There are four fortresses between two lines , i found two only .
I saw you had found some of path within two lines , it is real difficult for me to find the rest path you can't find , all i can do is to share this information ,and hope it is useful for your further finding .

The kmz file is attached.

[andarchen]

Originally Posted by Kim

Does it have any relation to this book?

http://www.meet-greatwall.org/zhuanz...n/Contents.htm

No related at all , but your link is good reference too .

[chinoook]

andarchen,

thx a lot for your work, it is invaluable. I think we understand the "Ningxia Problem" by now.
There will not be much left, but together with our rare findings and your clearification there is a consistent picture.

I still wonder how the river bank had been fortified. At other places, where the river is _much_ more difficult to cross and the banks are _much_ more difficult to scale there is a solid wall. Nothing seems to be left in Ningxia, maybe due to flooding, maybe due to ploughing, maybe due to manual destruction but most probable due to the transmutation to flood protecting walls.


-chinoook

[andarchen]

Originally Posted by chinoook

andarchen,

thx a lot for your work, it is invaluable. I think we understand the "Ningxia Problem" by now.
There will not be much left, but together with our rare findings and your clearification there is a consistent picture.

I still wonder how the river bank had been fortified. At other places, where the river is _much_ more difficult to cross and the banks are _much_ more difficult to scale there is a solid wall. Nothing seems to be left in Ningxia, maybe due to flooding, maybe due to ploughing, maybe due to manual destruction but most probable due to the transmutation to flood protecting walls.


-chinoook

The more invaluable thing is you had done great job to find out the rare left GW in north of Ningxia .
Although Ningxia had been fortified by Ming ,nevertheless Ming dynasty was
ultimately defeated by the enemy from northeast of China ,defense chief in
Shanhaiguan open the gate to let heavy army of Jin tribe enter .then Qing dynasty was set up .

[robert_loken]

Here follow some findings from the walk I did a few days ago along what the Forum has found of Great Wall in Northern Ningxia.

I came walking from the South, and was a bit too far East compaired to the most Western point of the suspected Great Wall. The reason for this was that I followed a few, but very long, irrigation channels when walking Northwards. This made for easier walking with a little softer surface, no cars and lorries and shade now and again.

I hit the suspected GW at 38 59 834/106 25 971, and followed the line Northeastwards. I was dissapointed in the beginning as I saw no signs of the GW. The area was agricultural, and some spots seemed to have been converted to agriculture fairly newly. I walked past several suspected beacon towers, without seeing any positive signs that they were there. When I got to the outskirts of a very small village at 39 00 852/106 24 760 I suddenly saw a great GW just behind some buildings. It was at least five metres high.

Asking the inhabitants of the houses, they confirmed that it was the Ming Dynasty GW. They told me it continued for a while to the NW.

I had to backtrack a little as there was a small water channel so that I thought I couldn't follow the GW closely going NW. It continued to 39 01 093/106 24 544 only torn down because of a pump station for pumping water to an elevated irrigation channel going to the NE.

The wall was well presverved. At the end point, I got to a river bed that was about a hundre metres wide. On the other side, there was an orchard with low and dense trees growing. I saw no sign og the GW continuing there. And to be honest I was pretty exhausted as it was getting very hot. I backtracked through the very small village to get som more water.

When I got to the outskirts of the small village again, I followed a path slightly further S. (About 50 to 100 metres) The reason for this was that I had noticed a slight mismatch between the beacon tower points I had noted on the GPS, and the actual findings.

Walking SE I now had a road and irrigation channel to the left (North), and the rail road to the right. I found now positive signs of beacon towers here, and suspect they may have been torn down when the fields were prepared. I saw some markings in the ground that could have looked like remains of a fortress, but on closer expection they were provasoric irrigation channels.

Then i got to the next small village, and asked for the Mind Dynasty GW. The guy I asked nodded, and pointed me on the way I was walking. On the other side of this second smal village, there was more evidence of the GW, but not as well preserved as the first place. From 38 59 710/106 26 198 there was GW heading ESE as projected by the forum. After leaving the second small village it became more prominent in the landscape. I walked into desert with a lot of scrubs growing on the ground, and also on the GW camoflaging it. The beacon towers where exactly where they were projected. Nice work guys!! ;-)

The only problem with the walking was that there were irrigation channels that were just a bit too wide to cross. So I had to make some detours. A lot of the time I was walking on the GW which was fun. I followed the GW till 38 58 984/106 28 275 and then had to detour to walk over a bridge that I thought went over a river. Later I saw it only crossed the railway line, so there was not real need to take the bridge. When I got to 38 58 661 / 106 29 354 I called it a day, and marked the end point of the day. I will return tomorrow, and follow it the last 3 km before heading Southwards.

Thank you very much for the information guys! I will make some pictures now, and send them with this post. Sorry for the delayed report (Andreas ;-)

Picture comments

China_02682_100809.jpg - First sighting of the GW at 39 00 852/106 24 760

Pics from hereon are going to the NW.

China_02683_100809.jpg - A little further to the NW of the previous picture taken from the South

China_02684_100809.jpg - And a little further

China_02686_100809.jpg - These dogs where sleeping a second before. The one to the left was trying to attack big time...

China_02688_100809.jpg - Had to walk on the Northern side because of the dogs. From this side the GW was 2 metres higher, and I estimate 6-8 metres at places. You can see my walking stick in the foreground.

China_02690_100809.jpg - Beacon tower

China_02692_100809.jpg - Can just make our a 30 cm high line that followed the line of the GW

Pics from hereon are to the SE of the first picture

China_02695_100809.jpg - A dirtroad and slightly elevated irrigation channel to the left (North) At first I thought the Southern bank of the irrigation channel could have been the GW, but found no sound evidence of this. And it didn't line up well enough with the GW I had spotted either.

China_02697_100809.jpg - This might have been a beacon tower, but it didn't look too convincing. I think unfortunately that they are gone in this area.

China_02703_100809.jpg
China_02704_100809.jpg

China_02707_100809.jpg - The GW left the populated area. Scrubs and irrigation channels.

China_02708_100809.jpg - Probably a beacon tower

China_02710_100809.jpg - Soft earth at the sides, and just that little bit too wide...

China_02712_100809.jpg - Another Beacon tower along the GW

China_02713_100809.jpg

[robert_loken]

More pics

[robert_loken]

More pics (2)

[robert_loken]

More pics (3)

[chinoook]

Hi Robert,

1. Thx for the photos and the report, I will comment later.
2. What an ugly formate do your coordinates have?

38 59 834/106 25 971

? Could you tell us the format and how to convert? Or convert it yourself for us?
3. You followed to the "Northeast". From the point I assume you hit the wall it should either run southeast or northwest. Please clearify.


-chinoook

[lsanderson]

I think 38 59 834/106 25 971 is 38°59.834'N, 106°25.971'E.

It is hard to type in those degree signs with a keyboard.