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  • Photos! Jiumenkou tunnel

    Discussion of the tunnel at Jiumenkou

  • #2
    Re: Shuidonggou area

    Originally posted by Ken View Post
    I went to this fortress. Kim, did you see the booby traps underground?
    There was a trap floor with spikes pointing up and some skeletons below and if u walk over something, a hard rock falls on your head.
    This Ming Fortress was really interesting. You can walk through the ditch and there is an entrance. Once underneath the fortress, u can enter the inside of the Fortress.

    The design of this fortress has some similarities with the underground tunnel at Jiumenkou.
    There was no light underground so I didn't see much of the underground exhibition. I find it very hard to believe that this was used for soldiers. Why would the soldiers live outside the fortress in a ditch, when they could stay inside the fortress. That really doesn't make much sense in my opinion, so I think it is more likely that the ditch was filled with water to protect the fortress.

    I'm not familiar with the Jiumenkou tunnel but I doubt that it is related to the Great Wall.

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    • #3
      Re: Shuidonggou area

      Originally posted by Kim View Post
      There was no light underground so I didn't see much of the underground exhibition. I find it very hard to believe that this was used for soldiers. Why would the soldiers live outside the fortress in a ditch, when they could stay inside the fortress. That really doesn't make much sense in my opinion, so I think it is more likely that the ditch was filled with water to protect the fortress.

      I'm not familiar with the Jiumenkou tunnel but I doubt that it is related to the Great Wall.
      The tunnel in Hongshanbao or Jiumenkou was used when enemy is approaching , troop was hinding there before battle broke out . You are really underestimate Chinese's talent.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Shuidonggou area

        Originally posted by andarchen View Post
        The tunnel in Hongshanbao or Jiumenkou was used when enemy is approaching , troop was hinding there before battle broke out .
        In a ditch filled with water?

        You are really underestimate Chinese's talent.
        Never ever. None of us who have studied the Great Wall.


        -chinoook
        chinoook's 1st law: Structurally weak walls tend to have double structures.
        chinoook's 2nd law: Newer walls are built next older walls, not over them.
        chinoook's 3rd law: Similar problems lead to similar solutions.

        The most dangerous worldview is the worldview of people, who have not viewed the world. (Alexander von Humboldt (1769-1859), German naturalist and explorer)

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        • #5
          Re: Shuidonggou area

          Originally posted by andarchen View Post
          The tunnel in Hongshanbao or Jiumenkou was used when enemy is approaching , troop was hinding there before battle broke out . You are really underestimate Chinese's talent.
          You can accuse me of a lot of things, but please don't accuse me of underestimating the talent of Chinese people. I have a big respect for the talent of Chinese people, and my love for the Great Wall should prove that!

          The Hongshanbao is located behind the wall, so I doubt that the Ming guys planed for enemy to stand right outside the fortress. The soldiers would meet the enemy in front of the wall and not behind it so there would be no need to hind in a ditch.

          If you have any kind of information to prove that the Jiumenkou tunnel is related to the Ming wall I would be more than happy to see it. I have not been able to find much information about it in English, but what I have found does not prove that it is a Ming construction. Non of my (Hebei) Great Wall books mention this tunnel.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Shuidonggou area

            As i knew that the tunnel and ditch around Hongshanbao are different things, they are separate and the level of tunnel is higher than ditch . As for the purpose of tunnel in Jiumenkou , i am trying to find out and share it later on .

            The usage of uderestimating just a joke , i do very admire all of you to know Great Wall very well .

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Shuidonggou area

              Originally posted by andarchen View Post
              As i knew that the tunnel and ditch around Hongshanbao are different things, they are separate and the level of tunnel is higher than ditch . As for the purpose of tunnel in Jiumenkou , i am trying to find out and share it later on .

              The usage of uderestimating just a joke , i do very admire all of you to know Great Wall very well .
              The entrance to the tunnel I saw was in the bottom of the ditch. I don't know if Ken saw another tunnel.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Shuidonggou area

                Originally posted by Kim View Post
                The entrance to the tunnel I saw was in the bottom of the ditch. I don't know if Ken saw another tunnel.
                You are right . I found a exhibition board being hang on inside of troops hiding tunnel(藏兵洞) , several large rooms were scattered in there . this
                tunnel locates in front of Hongshanbao and was dug at two floors underground .

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Shuidonggou area

                  Hi Kim, Here is the photo of the Great Wall secret Tunnel as the name appears on the entrance to the tunnel. As Andarchen, this tunnel has many rooms for stationing troops inside. Going inside the tunnel was very scary.
                  The entrance is on the enemy side and goes underneath the Ming Great Wall to the left of Jiumenkou. If I remember correctly, they did not make the exit open on the Chinese side for tourists to go through.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Shuidonggou area

                    The first photo is the entrance to the fortress via the Ditch. This was taken outside the entrance.

                    The second photo is the entrance/exit inside the fortress. If you enter the fortress via the ditch entrance, you come up here.

                    The third photo is taken from the Fortress Wall. At the very back is the Ming Great Wall. Nearer to us are the roofs of three rooms of the underground rooms of the fortress. Note the drainage pipes.

                    Underneath the fortress there is also an escape tunnel for the general to escape. I don't remember where it led but it really was fascinating this fortress. They had weapons on display.

                    Referring to the ditch, apparently it was to contain water if it rained. The other story I heard was if the enemy came down this ditch they would be sitting ducks for archers above the ditch. This fortress had many preparations if the enemy entered through the ditch entrance.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Shuidonggou area

                      Andarchen and Kim, did you see the two skeleton bodies buried next to each other with the black canopy covering them near the ground-level entrance to the fort?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Shuidonggou area

                        Originally posted by Ken View Post
                        Hi Kim, Here is the photo of the Great Wall secret Tunnel as the name appears on the entrance to the tunnel. As Andarchen, this tunnel has many rooms for stationing troops inside. Going inside the tunnel was very scary.
                        The entrance is on the enemy side and goes underneath the Ming Great Wall to the left of Jiumenkou. If I remember correctly, they did not make the exit open on the Chinese side for tourists to go through.
                        Any information regarding the history of this tunnel?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Shuidonggou area

                          Originally posted by Ken View Post
                          Andarchen and Kim, did you see the two skeleton bodies buried next to each other with the black canopy covering them near the ground-level entrance to the fort?
                          Yes, I saw those.

                          Some of my Hongshanbao pic can be seen here: http://greatwall.se/album/index.php?...ia/hongshanbao

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Shuidonggou area

                            Originally posted by Ken View Post
                            Andarchen and Kim, did you see the two skeleton bodies buried next to each other with the black canopy covering them near the ground-level entrance to the fort?
                            Thank for sharing those photos about troop hiding tunnel(藏兵洞).
                            Although I hadn't ever been there, i know clearly what Hongshanbao looks like finally after view you and kim's pictures .

                            Once i find the pictures of two skeleton bodies in that tunnel from web, i shall post it here .

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Shuidonggou area

                              I found the pictures of two skeletons in that tunnel , unfortunatelly,
                              both of them are nothing to do with hiding soliders after read the
                              description on the board .

                              People had been resided this area couple of thousand years ago , the tunnel was used for very ancient people too , so both of them may be older than Ming dynasty or not .





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